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|JP|DS



Posts : 2
Join date : 2009-05-27

PostSubject: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 1:19 am

I'm sure you've seen the other topic and/or posts by now from some of our members accusing you guys of recruiting. For that i apologize, for their claims were, as you said, fairly unsubstantiated.

I, on the other hand, did some extensive looking into the logs of the past week or so and came up with a large amount of offenses. Most notably being recruiting from several members, several times.

Direct quote from our public clan info on our forums:
"No Recruiting - Recruiting for another server, clan, or forums is forbidden on OUR server. It is our property and we do not appreciate our guests getting an advertisement to leave our server. Please report recruiting to us. All recruiters will be given one warning to stop before they are banned, and their clan could be contacted by us about the recruitment on our server depending on the situation."

Quote :
^7|^5SF^7|^0C^7heetos^1«^0I^1» to ^2Boo^3g¢r^2Ea^3t¢r: just for a sec can u come to 72.5.250.193:29070

^7|^5SF^7|^0C^7heetos^1«^0I^1» to ^1+^0Fire^1+: dude go to 72.5.250.193:29070 and ill explain everything

^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: my name is rishona77
^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: and my server is on the list lol
^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: Can't discuss it here
^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: I'll get in trouble
^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: they'll think I'm recruitin
^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: but if you wanna go to my other server.
^0|^1SF^0|^7W^0erd^7Z^0ero^7^7>^5GM to ^0Åçh^3i^0LL^3e^0§: /connect to this 72.5.250.193:29070 if you wanna talk
^3|^1SF^3|^0¢h^3i^0LL^3e^0§^7:^1R connected under IP -> 98.112.162.219


xcheetosx: I also recruited another Person! WOOT! His name is Jeremy

Those are the offenses i came up with not counting the amount of people that you said you would "talk with on xfire and explain things." Which was obviously just a loophole to go on our server and attempt to recruit people for yours. But regardless of that the offenses above are enough to BoS (Ban on Sight) your clan alone.

The council is discussing whether to BoS your clan now, there's a vote. I'll update this topic once the vote is complete. You guys were given ample warning and didn't take heed of it, so honestly this is your own doing. Among the recruiting there was some laming and disrespect issues that came up from certain members of your clan as well which most definitely won't help your situation.

Any members of the clan who haven't committed offenses within our server and officially leave the clan will be unbanned if you post on our forums requesting so. That is, if the BoS vote goes through.

G'day
-JP Council
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Zero

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Join date : 2009-05-09

PostSubject: Re: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 2:42 am

I've already had several talks with cheetos about this, and kicked out two members. As for me, I didn't recruit him on YOUR server. He asked me for my info and I gave it to him. He was asking me about my clan, in which case I told him I can't do so here and brought him to somewhere in which I could. Should have seen that in your "extensive looking" Furthermore, if we get somebodies xfire from your server, and then begin talking to them about a clan, if they haven't already committed to one, then it's not recruiting on your server. If your so concerned about losing possible members, then perhaps you should begin actually talking to some of the people who come to your server, otherwise please show me where your losses are? If your not trying to recruit the person, and we pick them up over xfire, how does that hurt you in any way? Just because we get their messenger address from your server doesn't mean we are recruiting there. We are making friends, then asking them over a program (typically xfire or msn) if they'd be interested to join. Since you do not own xfire, nor msn I still am yet to see where the problem occurs? With the exception of cheetos, and the two other members I've kicked out. If you are going to BoS the clan for making friends on your server, well then you may as well just start banning the majority of the people who come to your server. Apart from that, Asking somebody to come to your server (which I didn't do) He asked me for my server info, isn't even recruiting. Asking somebody to join your clan is. Now, if you would please look up the definition of recruiting, you'd find that the larger portion of your screenshots are nothing in relativity to what it means.

Thanks ~ Zero
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xcheetosx



Posts : 34
Join date : 2009-05-16
Age : 99
Location : TX

PostSubject: Re: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 2:56 am

i also have sumthing to say...

achilles is already in our clan and jeremy... he already applied and so i told him to put his tags on, on ur server... -_- i didnt recruit him on UR server
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xcheetosx



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Join date : 2009-05-16
Age : 99
Location : TX

PostSubject: Re: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 2:57 am

and fire already applied he wuz asking a question... so i told him to come to our server cuz it might affect other ppl maybe wanting to join...
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|JP|DS



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Join date : 2009-05-27

PostSubject: Re: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 3:06 am

Quote :
As for me, I didn't recruit him on YOUR server. He asked me for my info and I gave it to him.

You gave him a server IP, as you say later in your post:
Quote :
Now, if you would please look up the definition of recruiting, you'd find that the larger portion of your screenshots are nothing in relativity to what it means.

Which i did in my post above, if you read it. Here:
Quote :
No Recruiting - Recruiting for another server, clan, or forums is forbidden on OUR server. It is our property and we do not appreciate our guests getting an advertisement to leave our server. Please report recruiting to us. All recruiters will be given one warning to stop before they are banned, and their clan could be contacted by us about the recruitment on our server depending on the situation

For another server. You gave out a server IP. And you did wind up recruiting this person into your clan as they showed up later that day with your tags on. This isn't the US legal system, there are no loopholes, our rules are fairly definitive. But when there is chance of a loophole we either amend it then or use a bit of common sense to make the decision.

Quote :
He was asking me about my clan, in which case I told him I can't do so here and brought him to somewhere in which I could. Should have seen that in your "extensive looking"

I did. It's still recruiting. You gave out a server IP. And you did it with the intent of recruiting him into your clan furthermore. Which is recruiting. And this chain of events started on our server.

Quote :

Furthermore, if we get somebodies xfire from your server, and then begin talking to them about a clan, if they haven't already committed to one, then it's not recruiting on your server.

Yes, yes it is. Going on our property and getting people's information with the intent of getting them on your server or within your clan is recruiting. You might have had a case if you didn't do anything more than duel someone once or twice then ask for xfire and instantly direct them towards your server and try to get them to apply. Becoming friends seems like a secondary to you. Considering one of you, might've been you actually, the GM rank, said he himself didn't know half the people. So, yea, i'm sure you're just not recruiting to get big, you're trying to make friends. Right?

Quote :
If your so concerned about losing possible members, then perhaps you should begin actually talking to some of the people who come to your server, otherwise please show me where your losses are? If your not trying to recruit the person, and we pick them up over xfire, how does that hurt you in any way?

True, it doesn't hurt us much as we're a fairly robust clan. But we pay for the server, and we don't pay a monthly fee for you to go on our server and direct people off of it to your server. Sorry, our money isn't going towards your clan's growth. Nevermind the fact that one of your own server's rules is "No Promotion." Isn't that no recruiting?

Also, you alone won't hurt us. But if we allowed everyone to recruit that'd be an invitation for every clan to come and recruit in our server and for every recruiter we've ever banned to come back for a new shot at recruiting. That would hurt. Why should we make the exception for you? If anything that would be unfair to all the others we've banned for the same offense.

Quote :
Just because we get their messenger address from your server doesn't mean we are recruiting there. We are making friends, then asking them over a program (typically xfire or msn) if they'd be interested to join. Since you do not own xfire, nor msn I still am yet to see where the problem occurs?

The problem occurs when you ask them to join your clan within the first hour of meeting these people. It's blatant recruiting. Please, don't try and find a loophole, it doesn't work like that. When dealing with a massive amount of people a loophole can work, when dealing with a select few running a small group of people it just doesn't. It doesn't have to mean you're recruiting, but I've also linked people you're asking for messengers or sending to this "other" server with winding up in your clan shortly afterwards. Meaning you're recruiting.

Quote :

With the exception of cheetos, and the two other members I've kicked out. If you are going to BoS the clan for making friends on your server, well then you may as well just start banning the majority of the people who come to your server. Apart from that, Asking somebody to come to your server (which I didn't do) He asked me for my server info, isn't even recruiting. Asking somebody to join your clan is.

Making friends? Pretty sure i covered the link between you making friends over xfire and them being at your server or clan within the next day. You asked them to come to A server. Any IP given out is recruiting for a server. Doesn't need to be yours. And you did ask them to join your clan, you admitted earlier in your paragraph when saying you grab their xfire/msn and then ask them to join. You contradict yourself.

Nevermind that i purposely didn't link the xfire and msn contact stuff because it isn't concrete evidence. I linked only the concrete evidence, which i did say was enough by itself to warrant a BoS.

As for what cheeto is saying. In the screenshot it is said by Jeremy himself that he was recruited within our server. Keep your clan business to your own server. Achilles wasn't in your clan when he was sent to that server, he was asking about it, then later that same day after traveling to another server with said person from your clan he has your tags on.
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Quinnus



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PostSubject: Re: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 3:14 am

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Zero

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PostSubject: Re: JP Server.   Wed May 27, 2009 4:55 am

well I read about half that post before I got bored so, I'm just going to wrap up saying your opinion is that of what it is, and mine is unchanged. I just make friends as I said. Recruiting is still asking somebody to join a clan, by definition, not by your opinion, and so it's still that I did not recruit anybody on your server. Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, this happens on every and any server in the game, so you shouldn't let it get you all butthurt. People make friends, join their friends clan and stick together. On your part as well, half of your accusations are misunderstandings. The only one you have as a defense is Achilles, which is clearly a matter of perspective on the definition of what recruiting actually is, regardless of who is paying for what.

Either way I'm not too big on the internet drama ordeal, I will say this though. Everybody makes friends, If I'm not banned I will continue to ask people who I think are cool for their xfires etc so that I can play with em again, whether it be on your server or not. Don't think I add people with just the intention of recruiting them, I added Psychadelic to my xfire list because I thought that person was cool. Played with him once on my server as well. For the most part, the discussion of clans just comes up on xfire, they're usually interested to join, many even ask me for my xfire. You don't honestly think If I was trying to recruit I couldn't done a better job keeping it secret? I was never trying to hide anything, I've asked people on your server for their xfires right out loud. Like Nooka. So don't assume my intentions aren't first and foremost to make friends. But as I stated earlier I don't really care for internet drama. Do as you wish.'

When the decision is made, you may PM it to me, I will notify the others.
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